Sing Until Your Lungs Give Out - More Chuck Dixon
August 2013
 
 
 
 
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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 08:17 am
More Chuck Dixon

Feelings on all sides of the debate have been hurt and tempers have been raised, so I'm pretty sure that posting more stuff is a bad idea, but I made the mistake of reading more comments by Chuck Dixon. There's no point that I can see in addressing these criticisms to him directly, as I would come across as the straw-man 'impassioned liberal' he believes in and a troll, but I needed to respond somewhere. And, hey, look, I have an lj!

For the most part, writing the liberal POV is easy whether you're a liberal or not. Liberals are impassioned and passion is easy to write. Conservatives approach things more practically and seldom speak in slogans or platitudes so they're views are harder to express in bites.
The only exception I've encountered is when I had to write Batman expressing views I don't share. Batman's no knee-jerk and would have come to his opinions after much thought. So, I would need to look at the issue in question and have Batman state his position in way that as convincing, cool and dramatic.
(here)

I think it's highly unlikely that all conservatives have reached their value system as a result of careful, thoughful consideration -- many are simply brought up with those beliefs. So are many liberals; on the flipside are many liberals who have reached their opinions through thought and personal deliberation. I find it offensive that Dixon feels that the only liberal that's difficult to write is a smart liberal, because then he has to think about why on earth they'd be liberal. If you don't hold respect for your ideological opponents, or at least acknowledge them as your intellectual equals, how can the debate ever progress?

We needed a scene in which Connor undeniably had sex with a female so we could stop the assumptions that Connor was gay. (here)

Explicit sex in comics is bad! There're no homophobic double standards! oh wait no

Most kids (by sheer weight of probability) will have encountered a pregnant woman in real life long before they see one in a comic. By the reverse, kids who read comics will most likely see gay interaction in their favorite comic book long before they see (if they ever see) romantic interaction between two gay people in real life. (here)

Talk about perpetuating a vicious cycle. I've heard young, queer people express dismay, on numerous occasions, that they can't enjoy the same freedoms of public affection as their heterosexual friends. You basically have to don mental riot gear before you dare hold your girlfriend's hand if you're female, and that's in permissive/meltingpot/sophisticated places -- forget more narrow-viewed locales. If the media stopped treating gay people as weird, creepy, unwholesome, unsuitable for kids, inappropriate for superhero comics, etc, then maybe kids who read comics might see a world that's more willing to express love and affection where the ickle vulnerable children might see.

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anothersuperboy
anothersuperboy
The Chad
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:21 pm (UTC)

So before they killed him off as a hero, he had to have sex with a girl, so people wouldn't think he was gay... I really need to upload that "Ass-Hat" icon I snagged from miss_s_b ...


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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)

I don't think Connor's ever been killed off, not that I can remember. But, yeah. Gay sex on-panel = NOT RIGHT, sex to prove notgaynotgaynotgay = A-OK!


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jubilancy
J
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:26 pm (UTC)

You know, I feel so much more justified in my opinion that Chuck Dixon doesn't write that well. If he can't understand that Batman is not a liberal character, than how can he understand characterization?


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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:30 pm (UTC)

Batman doesn't like guns! Liberals don't like guns! Batman must be a liberal! Right? Lots of violent vigilantes determined to pound the shit out of criminals are liberals! They don't like guns, after all!


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papervolcano
papervolcano
papervolcano
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:31 pm (UTC)

...

Rather than get horrifically wanky again, I'm going to go read gay superhero porn. It'll be considerably better for my blood pressure, sanity, and faith in humanity.


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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:33 pm (UTC)

I'm going to go write some thesis, discussing the tensions of a writer opposed to homosexuality in comics writing about two of the biggest queer pop icons of the century. It's educational!


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katarik
katarik
katarik
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:35 pm (UTC)

*goes and reads really good gay porn to calm down*

*and also looks into activism near her that her time and energy could be used for*


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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:45 pm (UTC)

*cheerleads*


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juleskicks
sharp as a tack and twice as quick
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:38 pm (UTC)

Deleted, because LOL at me confusing Connor and Conner. HA N00B.

I still want to write that story, though.


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sharpest_rose
sharpest_rose
Isn't moral anarchy kind of the point?
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:44 pm (UTC)

You should! It would be AWESOME. :D :D


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teh_no
teh_no
Anti-penetrite!
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:47 pm (UTC)

There's no point that I can see in addressing these criticisms to him directly, as I would come across as the straw-man 'impassioned liberal' he believes in and a troll, but I needed to respond somewhere.

And that's where you lose me.


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weaverandom
weaverandom
Weaves
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 12:44 pm (UTC)

Why?


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oneangrykate
this is why we can't have nice things!
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 09:58 pm (UTC)

By the reverse, kids who read comics will most likely see gay interaction in their favorite comic book long before they see (if they ever see) romantic interaction between two gay people in real life.

Because lord knows every time I open up a comic, I AM BOMBARDED WITH TEH GAY. You can't see the forest for all the queers! Not to mention the insinuation that gay people are never going to exist in a child-friendly setting, let alone actually raise them.


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kalikahuntress
kalikahuntress
Shonaille
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:05 pm (UTC)

I'm sick to my stomach at the thought of this man writing Midnighter, what the hell is DC thinking allowing this man to write my6 Authority characters? Gah, things like this tempt to drop all of DC comics.


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juleskicks
sharp as a tack and twice as quick
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:31 pm (UTC)

...he's got Midnighter?

DO NOT WAAAAAAANT. D:


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penknife
penknife
penknife
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:20 pm (UTC)

asdfjkl; *headdesks*

By the reverse, kids who read comics will most likely see gay interaction in their favorite comic book long before they see (if they ever see) romantic interaction between two gay people in real life.

Well, yes, this is true for some kids. It's also true that some kids will most likely see any number of other things in books and on TV before they see them in real life. Like penguins. And archery. And the Statue of Liberty.

Strangely enough, no one freaks out about the possibility kids might learn that those things exist. But learning about the existence of gay people is different. Somehow. Oh, right, it's because we're bad! I keep forgetting.

I'm not even touching the "liberals are emotional, conservatives are practical" argument, because I will just laugh hysterically, thus probably proving Dixon's point.


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impactbomb
impactbomb
fuck you, internet porn will save the world
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:33 pm (UTC)

Chuck Dixon: really, really beyond-decent comics writer.

Except when he opens his mouth.

he wrote most of my favorite Battish moments and series, and yet - his every word outside of comcis makes my skin crawl.


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unlovablehands
unlovablehands
HOT NEW ORC FORTRESS
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 01:10 am (UTC)

iawtc


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chameleongirl79
chameleongirl79
Tyson Ritter gave me the glitter herp!!
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:34 pm (UTC)

I haven't had anywhere near enough sleep for me to go more than Bwa?Grr!! at this.


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sockich
sockich
rotting amnesiac zombie angel
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 10:53 pm (UTC)

There is so much stuff here that pisses me off, I don't even know where to begin.

Liberals are impassioned and passion is easy to write. Conservatives approach things more practically and seldom speak in slogans or platitudes so they're views are harder to express in bites.

So, this is like, a hive mind thing?

Also, why does this remind me of the "women are emotional, men are logical" thing? *ponders*

We needed a scene in which Connor undeniably had sex with a female so we could stop the assumptions that Connor was gay.

*twitch* Because lord know that's the worst thing that could happen.

And this is the guy writing Midnighter? *hysterical laughter*

Most kids (by sheer weight of probability) will have encountered a pregnant woman in real life long before they see one in a comic. By the reverse, kids who read comics will most likely see gay interaction in their favorite comic book long before they see (if they ever see) romantic interaction between two gay people in real life.

Kids don't see romantic interaction between two gay people in real life.

Comics are about escapism.

Escapism is achieved by reading about stuff you you don't see IRL.

There should be lots and lots of gay people in comics.

My logic is indisputable. ;)


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glossing
glossing
I saw you eating ice cream, pal!
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 11:22 pm (UTC)

Your logic is stellar! *gold star*


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phantomas
phantomas
phantomas
Sat, Jan. 6th, 2007 11:18 pm (UTC)

I know little of this debate, but, hey, it's no surprise that even from the little I know, I'm on youe side.
One thing I can add, that in Italy is very comon to hold hands if you're female wheter you're sisters, friends, or lovers. Male hand-holding indicates queerness, but female hand-holding is part of the norm and not given any specific meaning.
Of course, male friends here hug and cheek-kiss quite normally when greeting each other,without it being taken as a sign of being gay.
Strangely enough, for being the country where the Pope resides, our costumes are more lax than expected - the laws, however, are stricter.


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babelmira
babelmira
Princess Robot Bubblegum!
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 12:05 am (UTC)

So it's wrong to have sex outside marriage, you're punished for it by giving up the child, but if it's all ok if your comic character might be gay, because teh queer is scarier than straight fucking?

And people wonder why I don't let my kid read comics?


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poisonivory
poisonivory
Trixie Firecracker
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 12:28 am (UTC)

We needed a scene in which Connor undeniably had sex with a female so we could stop the assumptions that Connor was gay.

cheshireempress put it much better than I could: "...if he's referring to the Chinese ghost sex, then a) he needed to show Connor with more than a shirt off, and b) he needs his other characters to accept this story rather than mocking it."

Not to mention that if he's referring to something in the upcoming kissing cover with Shado, I guess bloody, murderous kissing with the woman who raped your father is less damaging to young readers than TEH GAY.


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(Anonymous)
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 03:08 am (UTC)

Not to mention that if he's referring to something in the upcoming kissing cover with Shado, I guess bloody, murderous kissing with the woman who raped your father is less damaging to young readers than TEH GAY.

Oh please. Everyone knows that women can't rape men. Straight men always want sex with women. Any woman who shows an interest. If not, how could these women "force" them? It's like saying that women having sex with boys in their early- and mid-teens is damaging to the kids or something. Ollie's just such a stud that he can seduce women while in a drugged stupor. It's definitely the kind of thing you want your impressionable sons to read.


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apathocles
apathocles
like a vore turducken
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 05:01 am (UTC)

The decision I made awhile back to not buy any of Dixon's stuff?

Yeah, not regretting that one bit.


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snake_easing
snake_easing
I in pyjamas for the heat
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 06:18 am (UTC)

Gah. I'm coming to see that I don't at all agree that parents should decide what their children should be exposed to. I mean, it's not like you can censor reality, is it? It's not like you should try.


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gal_montag
The Dread Ninja-Pirate Mad Anne Rackham Esq.
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 08:43 am (UTC)

The more this ass hat talks, the more I want to smack him.


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arionhunter
arionhunter
Oh, If Only It Were Witty...
Sun, Jan. 7th, 2007 06:48 pm (UTC)

This about sums up my own response to this mess. I swear, I fail to see why people still employ this man beyond the fact he's what one could term a "legacy" writer.

I seem to be the minority who can't stand Chuck Dixon, though early BoP has some redeeming qualities. And gay. Lots and lots of gay. But it's girl!gay, so this is totally okay of course. We cannot have the man gay, lest it teach our children that the gays are not, in fact, giant receptacles of the bestiality-inducing homo disease.


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(Anonymous)
Mon, Feb. 26th, 2007 08:17 am (UTC)
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